It's partly yes, and partly no. Yes the E300 was evolved from the Super Dart, but it's not quite the same class as the heavier MAN, Volvo and Scania. What Transbus did was opening up a new niche, known as the "supermidi". The idea is trading structure for light weight, and fit it with a smaller engine to, theoretically, delivering better fuel economy. DAF/VDL of course went along the same route with the SB200 as well.
The only problem is, the lighter E300/SB200 did not actually threaten the proper, full size competitiors, because in the real world, the heavier Volvo/Scania/MAN/Mercedes are more durable and versatile. If it sounds strange, then you need to look deeper into the UK market - Buses of this size are featured prominently on interurban services between towns, which the heavier, but usually more powerful full size buses are more suitable for those operations, not to mention in real life, the lighter bus does not always deliver better economy (those who drives would understand why). For citybus operations, where buses spend much of their time doing stop and start, the advantage of fuel for the E300/SB200 practically disappear - it just doesn't matter what you have when you sit in traffic.
The reality is plain for all the see really, when you compare how many E300/SB200 were sold since they were conceived, and how many Volvo/Scania/MAN/Mercedes were shipped at the same period. Even Stagecoach, a prominent ADL customer, sources more MAN 18.220/240s than the E300s. That really tells you something.
Thing is, you can only scretch a bus so far. The Super Dart sold well at the beginning, but its sales tailed off sharply by 2003. The cream of the sale went into the 9-10m versions (and bought predominently by London operators). Likewise, the longest 10.5m version Solo hardly really sale at all, and the vast majority of its order went to the 7.8m-9.5m versions.
I don't know how you came up with that logic, but fuel consumption is not directly proportionate to engine size. For instance, a Volvo Olympian, with a bigger D10A engine, uses less fuel than the B7TL and 2-axle Trident, both having a smaller engine.
The 6-cyclinder version ISBe engine used on the E200Dart and E400 are 6.7L, not 5.9L in the old days of the 6BT.
As I said before, I think the E400(HK) as its stands have too much power. Even with the ISBe engine, at full load, it would have similar power-to-weight ratio as the E500. I think they can do with toning the engine down to 280bhp and get better fuel economy really.
The Dart/E200Dart and those MAN/Mercedes you are trying to compare are completely different classes of buses, a fact which seems different for you to get across your mind. If the MANs Citybus look rattly on their bodywork to you, you then need to look at how Darts at similar age fare as well. Also, body rattle doesn't tell you the bus is unhealthy, it can just be shoddy repairs in depot. It is structurally where the heavier types have the advantage.
Meanwhile, much of the world doesn't agree with you apparently, considering the Citaro, O405, Lion Cities, B10Ms etc. have been the best selling types of their time. Globally.
I'll say it again. For all your hypes on the Dart, the heavier types still exist and sell like hotcakes. Even in the UK, the heavier Scania/Volvo/Mercedes sales are being outsold by large midibuses like the E200Dart, Versa, Tempo, E300 and SB200. That tells you something. Writing off these buses because the Darts were a success in its own right is just like writing off the Boeing 747 because the 737 exists - Irrelevant and pointless.
原帖由 aa2_dart 於 2010-3-19 06:00 發表
但德國佬 D MAN , Benz好多細緻位 , 英國佬D乜鬼Dennis , VDL , Optare拍馬都追唔上....www.hkitalk.net5 c% U4 U# k) T5 p
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Hum... VDL - formerly known as DAF - is a Dutch company.
What the German, and particularly Mercedes, excel is not on technology - Current E400 and E200Dart, believe it or not, have just about as much electronics and computer anyway. What they excel is the attention of design and build quality. Although the hype of a certain Mercedes cheerleader here was a but annoying, but I will hold my hand up and say that the Citaro is, hand on heart, a class on its own. I remember when the Citaro Gs started coming into London, the MD of Stagecoach London was once quoted to have said they were the best built bus they ever had.
The british of course have the capacity to do the same. They have Wrightbus, which excels on quality, attention to detail and being innovative, and, if on a lesser degree on quality, Optare. Dennis/Transbus/ADL are more than capable to do the same - they proved that on the original E200, 2/3-axle Trident and the original Dart, but I don't think, these day, they have been as bold anymore.
I won't. The original E200 was, in my opinion, the best design ever pulled out by Dennis/Transbus/ADL. I just wish it went into production...
Ok, you mean the E200Dart. But then would the Germans care anyway, the only contemporary type they have now are the Citaro K and 14.240, both of which sit at the upper end of the E200Dart range. The 14.240 in particular is rather similar to the E200Dart actually. Any smaller, they just don't seem to bother these days - Except Mercedes' short-life Cito of course.
There is nothing to laugh at. They just have different markets, and hence different design philosophies.
